When money isn’t real: the $10,000 experiment | Adam Carroll | TEDxLondonBusinessSchool

Translator: Araminta Dutta
Reviewer: Queenie Lee
I recently completed an unsanctioned,
unsupervised psychological experiment
on my children,
the premise of which was
$10,000 in cash on the kitchen table
and a sign next to it
that said ‘Don’t touch the money yet!’,
and before I dive into it,
you should know that we
are a game-playing family.
We play ball games, board games,
dice games, card games,
all sorts of games,
but the games that my children love
to play most are games like Monopoly,
and when they play Monopoly,
they play marathon games of Monopoly
that last hours and hours
over days of play.
Each of my kids has a unique strategy
and personality when they play Monopoly.
My daughter, who is 11,
she is always the dog.
She plays entirely for Chance
and Community Chest cards;
you can say that she uses
the ‘luck’ strategy.
My 9-year-old son is always the car –
a very strategic player.
He buys all of the Railroads
and all of the Utilities
and then proceeds to put houses and hotels
on the most expensive properties –
very savvy.
And then his younger brother,
who is seven,
he buys everything that he lands on
with no exception,
which is fitting because he
is the wheelbarrow.
Now, before I tell you
how my experiment unfolded,
I have to share an observation
that led me to the creation of it.
One Monopoly marathon, Saturday morning,
I was playing with my kids
and noticed that they were all playing
just outside of the rules of the game.
So they were doing things
like buying each other out of jail
and lending each other money
to buy properties,
and I found myself going, ‘Guys,
this is not how this game is played!’
to which they’d say, ‘Dad, it’s fine!
We just want her on the board with us’,
or, ‘He can pay me back
at the end of the game,
when he’s flush with cash’,
and I’m thinking again,
‘What am I teaching these kids?’
So, I started watching
how they were playing –
listening to their banter, getting a feel
for how they were making decisions –
and I had this thought:
‘What if they’re playing this way
because the money isn’t real?’
It’s a concept I’ve been reading a lot
about, lately, ‘Financial abstraction’,
the notion that when money
becomes more and more of an idea,
less tangible and therefore more abstract,
it changes the way we interact with it
on a regular basis,
and there’s anecdotal evidence
of abstraction everywhere around us.
All you have to do is listen carefully
to people who say,
‘I loaned my child
or grandchild the phone,
and a month later,
all these errant in-app charges
showed up on my bill.’
In 2014, Apple reimbursed customers
for in-app purchases that were unapproved,
mostly by children,
to the tune of $32.5 million.
This is in a US FTC settlement.
In the documentation,
it said it was just too easy for kids
to make an in-app purchase.
The Imagineers at Disney were charged
with making the parks ‘frictionless’ –
is what they called it –
so they invested a billion dollars
in a MagicBand.
It’s a wearable device that functions
as your room key, your park ticket,
and your ID and wallet
when you’re on park property.
So if your child wants a set of ears
and a dessert in the Magic Kingdom,
‘bibbidi-bobbidi-boo’ –
your vacation just cost a whole lot more,
Lastly, I had a conversation
with some teenagers
who told me that $100,000 a year
really wasn’t that much money.
I said, ‘Really?
Why do you think that?’
They said, ‘Well, we both have $500,000
in our ATM machines on Grand Theft Auto’,
which is a very popular
and somewhat sketchy video game.
So as I’m playing with my kids
and I’m watching them play,
listening to them talk,
I thought, ‘What if the money
were real on the table?
Would they play differently?’
And so I calculated quickly on the box,
‘How much would it take
in capital, in currency,
to play a physical game
of Monopoly with my kids
so that they actually tangibly
got to feel the money in their hands?’
And I estimated, for four or five players,
it’s about $10,000.
So one Friday, I stopped at the bank,
I got all the denominations of bills
on a Monopoly board
with the exception
of a $500 bill – hard to get –
and on Sunday, I rounded the family up
for a high-stakes game of Monopoly,
where the winner takes all.
All of $20, by the way.
All of $20.
You have never seen kids’ eyes
light up the way mine did
when I handed each of them
$1,500 in starter capital,
and you have never seen
anyone’s eyes light up like my wife’s
when I took it back on Monday.
All of it.
Our marathon game
only lasted two and a half hours –
far shorter and more strategic
than most of the games they normally play.
True to my hypothesis,
two of my three kids
actually played differently;
my daughter still played the ‘luck’ card.
She was the first one bankrupted,
and she happily retired
to the living room to read a book.
My youngest son, the wheelbarrow,
did not buy everything he landed on;
instead, he carefully calculated
how many rolls away he was
from one of his brother’s properties
and how much he would owe his brother
if he landed on said property,
and made his decisions based on that.
In effect, having real money on the table
and a cash prize at the end
made him more conservative.
And my middle son – very strategic –
still bought all of the Railroads,
still bought all of the Utilities,
but did not buy Boardwalk and Park Place
or Mayfair and Park Lane,
but instead, he put hotels immediately
on Oriental and Baltic Avenue,
or Coventry and Leicester Square
on the UK version.
When I asked him why,
in his own words, he said,
‘Dad, they’re just
more affordable properties.’
At which point, I cried a tear of pride.
So he got it!
In the end, my son finished
with 28 properties,
more cash than he’d ever seen
and held in his entire life,
and he now knows the meaning
of the phrase ‘making it rain’.
Look how happy he is,
and how annoyed
his brother and sister are.
In the confines of my experiment,
there is an idea worth spreading,
and it is this:
I believe kids today
are being raised in a world
where money is no longer real;
it’s actually an illusion,
but it has very real consequences.
Peter Drucker, famed leadership guru,
said banking and finance industries today
are less about money
and more about information,
and yet young people today
don’t get that information;
they don’t get the experiences
of money, early on.
Three researchers from
the Centre for Creative Leadership,
in a study done two decades ago
that’s been replicated many, many times,
they interviewed over 200 executives
in a report called
‘Key events in executives’ lives’.
In this report, they found
that of the 200 top-level executives
who were the top of their game,
all of them had similar characteristics.
One of them was
that early on in their career,
they had been thrust
into a leadership role
that required them to make decisions
that had serious consequences.
They also had a mentor in place
that helped them appreciate the lessons
they were supposed to learn
from those experiences.
The study created a leadership framework
that said, in essence,
that someone with potential,
if given the opportunity to engage
in strategically relevant experiences
and given the ability to learn the lessons
from those experiences,
would have a higher likelihood of success
in their career in a leadership capacity.
Now if you took that study framework
and my $10,000 experiment
and looked at it
through the kaleidoscope,
you would get a statement like this:
if kids are given financially-relevant
experiences in their life
and someone is there to help them
learn the lessons from those experiences,
they have a higher likelihood
of achieving financial
success later in life,
and in my humble opinion,
they need to have them early,
and they need to have them often.
We under this not-so-subtle societal shift
in the way that we pay each other, today.
It’s estimated there are trillions
of dollars circling the globe
in our global economy every single day,
yet only four percent of that money
is actually in coin or currency.
The rest is all digital, data packets,
ones and zeroes,
and today’s digital-native youth –
they don’t see people paying
with cash or cheques.
In fact, if ever you’re in a line,
and someone in front
pulls out their chequebook to pay,
you are liable to say to yourself,
‘Really, a chequebook?
This is going to take forever.’
You’re laughing because it’s true.
The currency of today is digital.
Many of these kids equate spending
with credit and debit cards,
with Google Wallet and Paypal and Zap.
All of these are what they
equate spending to,
and by the way,
I am not pooh-poohing
the technological advancements
in payment technology today –
far from it.
I think tokenisation and randomisation
and biometrics are the wave of the future.
The first time that I used Apple Pay,
it was like showing the caveman fire.
It was amazing.
But what snapped me back to reality
was hearing my son behind me say,
‘I sure wish I had a phone
so I could buy stuff.’
You see, money, to a young person,
is somewhat abstract, anyway,
and when we further the abstraction
by waving a MagicBand
or putting our phone over a sensor
and giving the thumbprint,
all it does is further the abstraction.
It’s a recipe for financial disaster
later in life to the uneducated
because, to a young person,
they see money as limitless
because they have no concept
of the backend
until it comes around
to bite them in the back end.
I’ve seen this firsthand
in my work with university students –
young people who borrow
and spend untold amounts of money,
having no concept or understanding
of the increase in payments,
the decrease in lifestyle,
and the challenges they’ll face later on.
In the UK and the US,
student debt is ballooning problem.
In the US, we’re at $1.2 trillion
in student loan debt,
second only to mortgage debt in the US.
One in three students is delinquent.
One in five is in default.
It’s a huge problem,
and the reason that this is concerning
for all of us as a global economy is this:
Dun & Bradstreet found
that people spend 12 to 18 percent more
when using credit cards over cash.
They have yet to do a study
how much more we’ll spend
with a MagicBand or a phone,
but I can imagine
it would be 15 to 20 percent,
or 18 to 25 percent,
and all you need to do
is read the headlines
in the newspapers and magazines
across the world today.
Places like The Guardian,
The Washington Post, Fortune, Forbes –
these are the headlines we’re seeing:
‘New consumer debt reaching
a seven-year high’ in the UK,
‘Consumer debt hitting an all-time high’
in the US, ‘Choking on credit card debt’,
‘The credit card debt crisis:
the next economic domino’.
It’s what happens when people overspend
and get in over their head with money.
Unfortunately, The Money Charity says
that in the UK right now,
one person every five minutes
and three seconds
is either declared insolvent or bankrupt.
To put this into perspective,
since I started speaking today,
two people in this country
have declared bankruptcy.
In the UK, Demos.org says
that Americans aged 25 to 34
have the second highest rate
of bankruptcy.
Everyone’s question should be,
‘Why? Why is this happening?’,
and in my simplistic view, it is this:
because the money they’re spending
isn’t real – it’s an abstraction.
So to stem this tide
with the next generation,
we have to bring them up to understand
that they are living in a world
where they have to make
very real money decisions,
in a world money is largely an illusion
but has very, very real consequences.
Because I want your children and mine
to be super successful financially,
consider any of the following:
If you are going
to spend money on children,
give them a set amount of money
and let them spend it.
Let them tangibly feel the money
go through their hands.
Let them succeed or fail
with minor consequences
so that later in life,
when they’re making the major decisions,
they understand there are
major consequences that go along.
For older kids, it’s this:
set a budgeted amount for school clothes,
supplies and what-have-you,
give them that amount,
and when they are
done spending it, it’s done.
And here’s the key; they get to spend it
with your subtle guidance,
your subtle mentorship,
your subtle supervision,
and whether you call it an allowance,
you call it commission for chores
or you call it a weekly stipend,
every single child,
from the age of five on up,
needs to be given some tangible amount
of money on a weekly basis
so that they understand how to function
in a cashless society someday.
Better to teach the young
the habit of saving
when they have a little bit
of money to save
than try to teach savings
when they have no money
because they’re in over their head.
I met an American named José.
He was a 20-year-old student
at an American university.
He was the child
of two Cuban-born parents.
At the age of 15, his parents told him,
‘José, we will give you food,
we will give you shelter
and we will give you $50 a month,
but the rest is up to you.’
I asked him, ‘What was that like?’
He said, ‘Clothing, toiletries,
school supplies, entertainment, gas –
it was all on me.
I resented my parents for a year.
But you know what?
I realised it was the single best thing
they could have ever done for me.’
When I met José at 20,
he was on a full-ride scholarship
at the university he attended.
He had $20,000 saved in a savings account
from working part-time in high school,
and this kid exuded financial prowess
and unmistakable leadership potential.
At the heart of my message today is this:
it does not take a $10,000 board game
and it doesn’t take cutting kids off
financially to make a difference.
The first step is, honestly, quite easy.
It’s about educating the next generation
to make decisions in a world
where money is largely an illusion
but has very, very real consequences,
and the reason it’s so important for all
of us, as a global society, to do this
is this next generation coming up
will inherit the global economy
that we are handing to them,
and we will precariously place it
on their shoulders.
We owe it to them to set them up
for financial success.
Thank you.

100 thoughts on “When money isn’t real: the $10,000 experiment | Adam Carroll | TEDxLondonBusinessSchool

  1. Finally a male TED speaker.. such a nice change from the female ones talking about their dating lives

  2. I'm 30yo from Finland. Here, cash is becoming less and less popular, everyone pays with debit card or with some mobile payment system. I've noticed that I try not to draw cash from the ATM because in my account's balance that money is gone immediately. I still have it, but if I check my account it's gone. And if I get cash from some other source, it doesn't feel as much like my money as that balance number on my account. I sometimes find loose bills on my jacket pockets because of this.

  3. "500k on gta" that's like chum change lol come back when you have bill's to waste daily for years

  4. 9:11 when i was in my teens, my friend and I had a sack of pennies (you can see the pennies in the sack, it was like a netsack) and we would more or less make a scene while getting drinks, ie polar pops) and every time we did it someone would offer to pay for our drinks before or while we counted each penny. one by one. we would make sure there is a line, or we wouldnt do it. it may have been scummy but i bought 100's of polar pops that way with the same sack of pennies. (that i still have to this day)

  5. What if money WAS limitless? This can be done with a plethora of resources from solely renewable resources. Carbon composites will get this ball rolling. From there it is on to the stars. The moon First and so on. Maybe the ocean first? Very good points this man has made however if that is truly unachievable.

  6. Better do it quickly because cash will soon be obsolete. Question your government and your bank account will be red-flagged. You will be restricted from travel and everything you purchase will need preapproval. This is already taking place in China, where they have a social credit system. Speak out and lose credits.

  7. Very good video. Well prepared and performed talk about the important topic. I wish school invite guests like this to educate children about finances. I guess uneducated consumers are the best option for the banking system and corporations😐

  8. Why don’t all you “scientist” people in the comments section (you who criticize this man’s experiment) conduct similar experiments and post your results on YouTube.

  9. "Uhuhuhuhu"… laughing at his own lame joke within 5 seconds of opening. "Magically…. uhuhuhuhuh… magically."

  10. I find it amazing that people do not understand this idea of abstraction, to the point where they have to be told the idea in a TED talk…
    I knew this idea before i got into the 8th grade. Pay for everything in cash and you will be less likely to spend money on frivolous things like candy or magazines. I spent four hours mowing that lawn and i only got 30 bucks. I am not gonna blow it on 2 or 3 comic books. I am going to save it and buy a new CPU for the computer i built last 3 years ago.
    I find it astounding when people just learn how to beat the roulette table… I figured this out when i was 14. always double your bet when you loose, and always play the same color. When you win start back at the first bet price.

  11. Interesting experiment, what about personality types of you and childern, which kind we are? Can it be in raw MBTI?

  12. “It’s about educating the next generation to make decisions in a world where money is largely an illusion but has very, very real consequences”

  13. Poverty creates the most humbling experiences with money. People think being poor is bad, but it’s the lessons u learn from being poor that really counts.

  14. When money isn’t real: When private individuals, via the central banking system, have the monopoly on printing and circulating it, when banks use fractional reserve lending to create it out of thin air and when stock exchanges use fake money to make more fake money and produce nothing of true life-supporting value….so pretty much all the time, lol!

    Capitalism and the fiat monetary system will always produce structural violence and debt slavery period. The system cannot be fixed because it isn't broken. It operates exactly as it should, as a negative, parasitic, life-depleting, anti-human ponzi scheme that relies on the constant exchange of phony money to keep itself propped up.

    All these so-called financial experts will never address this fact, they will simply claim that the model can be adjusted and tweaked so that it works properly and of course, they just happen to have said magical tweak.

    Replace this system with a resource based economy and you have the real answer to fixing the world's economic ills.

  15. Money is not real, its a medium of exchange, it has no backing and the more fed prints the less its worth,

  16. 7:22 – The 200 executives example is a survivor bias example. Only the people that succeeded and became an executive are given as an example. We are not told about the people that were given a leadership role early in their career that required them to make decisions that had serious consequences and they failed in their role, thus they did not become an executive, causing them to never been interviewed by this research. If the research never included this people then we only know the bunch of people that were successful at their roles.

  17. Interesting and I agree with him, but this should be known. It’s just a means of payment and the amount you have dictates your lifestyle and what you can have.

  18. People just have to get used to the new digital currency, thats it.

  19. Since my local buses have switched to being able to pay by debit card I have used them a lot more. Having to carry cash, and especially in the correct denominations, is a just a hassle.

  20. As we all know 1 million yen is nothing, I spend much more money when using yen than the currency of my home country.

  21. This Adam person starts a conversation for listeners yet this onstage performance has little value beyond. Government involvement in Student Loans is a large part of the problem in the US. This guy was most interested in telling about himself, how smart he is, stories about his kids. The one child throwing, flipping, the money was likely very cute to this one man and it was obnoxious to others. To not mention anything about interest rates on credit cards and how a smart person games this form of credit, ie., using a credit card as a tool knowing what the benefits are (for any disputed transaction) and the importannce of not carrying a balance, so as to avoid interest all together, with this not covered therefore this presentation is lacks credibility. He has not implimented any of these savvy habits in his own children's lives otherwise he would have told us that he did so and what became of this. This guy is a performer nothing more. I has partially entertained. Nothing there to assist a child, anyone.

  22. To me this guy behaves like he invented the hot water in 21 century or something :D. I mean it's quite obvious that people woud change the way they play (their strategy) if something REAL is involved and not game currency… And he speaks like paper money is an illusion which IT'S NOT as you can buy anything with it… Money has real value it's just that it's better if it goes digital.

  23. Money is real. I always think that that money isn't real but that's probably why I never have money and am broke all the time. For 12 years money has always been my issue, I dont see it shifting anytime soon. Money has imprisoned my mind. That's why I'm depressed and sad all the time.

  24. Such a good video. Don't use credit card unless you have 3X time of money that you're spending. ❤️

  25. Terribly misguided and patronising explanation of bankruptcy in young people.

  26. Parents nowadays: son I give you 100$ a month, that's it.
    Kid, 2 weeks later: mom I have no money, I spent it all.
    Mom: Damn! Here, take these other 20$.

    Kid learns the most valuable lesson: in this society you will hardly be really punished.

  27. It's all fun and games until the next world greater depression, money can be watered down only so much. Buy Bitcoin!!!

  28. Most parents today are just to self involved to take the time to educate their children for adulthood. It's just easier to hand them money and go about their lives. That's why so many young people have crushing student debt.

  29. I WISH I COULD GIVE THIS VIDEO A 1,000 THUMBS UP!👍👍👍 I just can't believe that so far there is 2.9k thumbs down??? 👎 They must be on 💉💊 & must of spent all there 💰💳💷💶💴💵💸🏧

  30. What I find interesting about myself is the fact, that if I have a certain amount of cash in my room, I try not to fall below it. Let's say I have 100€. That's a nice amount to take a line. Now I have 143€, so I'm allowed to spend 43€, but not more, because I would drop below the 100€ line. Well, but now I haven't spend money in some time and I have 256€. 250€ sounds like a good amount to take a line! With this method, I have little expenditure. Even more interesting, I use the same method in video games…

  31. Oh my, where do I start? Fiat currency is a an economic prison, a tool for exploitation. The Federal Reserve creates money out of nothing, and it is we the sheeple who ascribe value to it. All currencies collapse.

  32. So only the boys exhibited logic upon the reality of a new situation… While the daughter retreated back to a fantasy

  33. I feel the same, i hardly use physical money today. So the money i use is just numbers right?

  34. I want no part of anything "global". I am an American, not part of your Satanic New World Order !!!

  35. The game of monopoly was played and won many years ago. The winners have the true control of the world.

  36. Is that a mouse running in the background at 7:20 or am I going insane 😂

  37. You would get the same result with the fake money if you actually set the price at 20 USD before start of the game. If you want to test the impact of real money on the behaviour, you should have not added that extra variable. Over ten or more runs you would see a pattern of your one child overperforming and the other one’s underperforming, pointing to their preferred types of motivators, i.e. intrinsic or extrinsic. If you increased the price, you would see most of your kids underperform under pressure. Stop simplifying these issues and blaming it on the digital culture – you want to teach kids the value of money? Make them earn it with work.

  38. Mister Adam Carroll, i would like to ask you about how to deliver this mentality you are speaking off for people who obsess about getting money and missing everything present around them . thank you for this lobely presentation and for your enthusiasm.

  39. Any tech based payments such as biometrics and fingerprints and with your phone can be and will be exploited
    Think of that guy that hacked apples face recognition
    Anyone can learn to code and hack
    Not everyone can rob a bank

  40. Adam is a treasure. Common sense. Creative. Grounded. My take: Ditch debit cards & segueue to cash. I'm trying to do this now… but I had learned $ responsibility back in the day shoveling neighbors' snow for pennies in today's dollars.

  41. Disney is owned in Israel now. Disney is not the old Disney which was honest. Apple are diving for the money too.

  42. Exceptional content. The YouTube algo gave this gift to me a few years ago but I feel it is even more relevant now than it was then. Thanks.

  43. Ouh we did the opposite normally. We made it harder. Instead of paying once for a property you had to pay the money each time you go around. Yip, thats strategical

  44. Kids shouldn't be given money for no reason, it will just breed a generation of entitlement which is already becoming an evident problem.

  45. It's a little frustrating that he doesn't talk about the hamster wheel/debt treadmill that the modern day economy almost forces you to get on. I get it – fiscal responsibility will always be an issue with younger people and digital currency might be causing more damage; however, the financial squeeze that encourages borrowing and lending instead of savings (a.k.a. U.S. monetary policy) is what drives up educational costs and devalues degrees at the same time. It's the same for the overvalued housing market or equities in stock exchanges. So even if you learn the value of a dollar the probability is that you are still going to be in a financial bind.

  46. U just proved ur self wrong. U say money isnt real to kids, but they play different when the money is real because they kno the difference. If they played the same with real and fake money, then u could say they dont understand… Any one else with me?

  47. Doubtful that this ever happened in a minority home from lack of affluence. How privileged a family it must be.

  48. Money is not real. People reach out into nothingness, pulling their hand back, saying they have something in it. That is a lie. People thinking money is real, are believing a lie. Jesus wants us to do what he taught.

  49. He talked about how messing up made people better so I hope that loosing $1400 when I was 12 will help

  50. Im in finance, and some jobs require a disconnected view towards money. This is exactly why 99% of self employed day traders lose. They practice on a demo, with real time data, but they're not concerned about the value of money because that's taken out of the equation. They do really well, so well in fact, that they so they open a live account, and stress too much about the relative value of their own money and blow their account up.

  51. The real secret, is that after Nixon under an unconstitutional (required the approval of Congress but he just did it) executive order repealed the Gold/Silver standard and because the American dollar is the world's reserve currency the world economy is based on American success and is mainly backed by the military might of the United States and our banking system. And our banking system never recovered from the Bush/Obama years and the cracks are starting to show!

  52. A good experience to have is backpacking. You can let them research and pick out food, On the trip they will have to plan how much they can eat or drink for that day, they’ll also have to be resourceful like using rocks because they didn’t bring enough stakes.

  53. New Consumer Dept: the Tedx-Talk-Adam-Carroll-give-your-children-real-money-Crisis

    just joking<3

  54. All money is an abstraction, the difference is that now it's only numbers on a screen instead of paper or metal inside your pocket.

  55. i like what he's saying but i can't help but wish his mentor suggested a different set of frames

  56. I believe some people are like this but more than that it's because we're growing up in a broken economy. Housing, education, medical care, and more have all drastically increased in cost disproportionate to inflation and the average increase in wages.

    A staggering number of kids are trying to make due with little help or financial guidance, often due to coming from equally or even poorer families, while those with better off families are off finishing college and buying their first house in their early 20s.

    The game is rigged against us from the start and often the only way to get by is credit cards. My fiancee and I fell behind putting necessities like food and clothes on credit more than we did frivolous purchases like electronics and such.

    The fact of the matter is society is not geared to let the poor and lower middle class succeed. Not anymore. It's built so that you have to have money to make money and far too many of us simply don't.

  57. This method is so easy and fun you can also get paid $1956 with this fabulous website here EZpay100 .c o m

  58. Monopoly money and what we perceive as real money ARE the same thing. Paper with ink printing on it. What we perceive as real money is just an illusion. Paper and digital currency only have value because we have been programmed to believe that they do.

  59. I've always on the other hand, played by all money is monopoly money!!!! Ans the same way in Vegas!!! That the main reason I think that I'm currently worth over $50 million dollars!!!!😊

  60. I want to try this. It would be so fun to learn and strategise money in monopoly. This is a genius idea.

  61. Your lesson on 'abstract money' and children also applies to Washington politicians…particularly liberals and socialists.

  62. I remember when I slowly amassed 20 $1 bills as a child. And how thoughtfully I would down that money. Maybe bey is very real to me to this day.
    Excellent talk here

  63. Just spend all the eCash you can and hope for a solar flare to fry the web 😀

  64. This is an excellent talk. And all with no slide deck! But the vivid storytelling paints a pretty clear picture. A compelling explanation of generational money attitudes.

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